Camp meeting time
I apologize for my lack of posting. I really do care about you kids I swear. It’s just that some people put out good thoughts once a week (i.e. Keith Drury) some every other day (i.e. Doug Thompson), some seem to blog two or three times a day (Dr. Schenk coming to mind), but me … I get about one good thought a month… and that may be a stretch.
Ok so on to my thoughts for the month …
I have been at camp meeting this past week. Now let me explain, I am a big camp meeting fan. I’ve grown up on them. I love them. I also love preaching. When I’m in the car by myself I pop in tapes of preachers I like. Yes I know this makes me a dork, and I’m ok with that. Anyway, this has been the best set of preaching that I’ve ever heard at a camp meeting. Dr. William Ury is one of my favorite all time preachers (he’s up there with Stephen Manley, Joe Duvall, Steve DeNeff). Dr. Thomas Hermiz (The new GS of the CCCU) has a great preachers voice and is bringing the message of sanctification and holiness amazingly well. Dr. Mark Smith (The new president of OCU formally CBC) has also been exceptional. The worship has been very good, mixing modern and traditional, contemporary and oldschool, I think I even heard a Chris Thomlin song, WHAT?!?
So my question is, why is it that the altars have not been lined? Why do the teens rush to the altar along with a few younger pastors, yet most of the adults don’t blink an eye. They don’t even move. Worse, many of them walk out of service as the altar call is being announced. I distinctly remember Dr. Ury saying “if you are not waking towards God you are walking away from him,” and minutes later hordes of elderly were walking out the back of the tent as I watched teens pass them in the other direction going towards the altar. What a stark illustration.
It is easy to say that things aren’t going well in America or in the church. We whine and complain about a lack of revival in the church. I myself sometimes find myself falling into a trap. The first few nights I felt ok, because I looked and saw young people going down to the altar, and then Dr. Ury hit me with this. “How sad is it, that we use the young people as a front to our own spiritual death. We let them go to the altar and then say ‘look how healthy our church is.” Ouch.
So I started watching and realized he was right, and I can’t figure out why. “there isn’t enough holiness preaching” I hear. “If there were more then we’d have revival.” Ok so why not now? You’re going to have to come up with a better excuse because that’s the best holiness preaching I’ve ever heard. “more hymns” “more contemporary” more anything.
How about this? More Jesus. Sounds good to me. Perhaps if we would realize that the question is not why should we go down to the altar, but why we shouldn’t go down we’d have less problems. Maybe we gotten so stuck in two tripism (one trip for salvation and one for sanctification) that we have forgotten what it’s like to seek God. Heaven forbid the people around us think we are seeking God, they may think we have sin in our lives, and then they would think we aren’t sanctified. I am going to say this as plainly as I can. If we do not change our hearts we will die. As churches, as a denomination, as an entire movement. I’m not a prophet, but I am a concerned pastor. One who has grown up hearing phenomenal preaching, solid theology (thanks dad), and one who is worried that if we don’t start making some changes the next generation will lose the message of hope that we have. Melvin Maxwell said it amazingly well last weekend “if your product isn’t selling then you need to change your methods.” Even if we have the best message and “product” ever, it doesn’t matter if no one is hearing it. And if we do not change our hearts and fall before God, there isn’t going to be anyone around to proclaim it.
posted by Aaron at
1:03 PM
9 Comments:
Aaron,
Thank you for your analysis of a holiness campmeeting in the CCCU tradition.
May God break our apathy (at least that of an older seasoned group of holiness folk)and truly sanctify us wholly.
Keep preaching!
Chris Bounds
By
Chris Bounds, at 5:12 AM
hey friend,
nice thoughts, i agree entirely. i think alot of us in the church have a pharisitical (if thats word) appraoch when it comes to crusuades or camp meetings, its like always a word not for us, all of us are striving for perfection, yet none of us will get there, but we are to strive we are to seek. its when we think we have arrived that we actually backslide. Holiness- should always be paramount, i think we struggle to package that message, yet it is soo important, and after that is fully grasped and understood our lives would be so transformed that keeping the lost generation would be a whole lot easier for us. Could it be our fault these poeple are lost?
would love to hear more of ur sermons
dernell
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Anonymous, at 10:13 AM
I loved camp meeting this year. Ury blew my mind time and tiem again. As much as I snicker at some of the antics of the old style camp meeting, I still miss it when I'm not there.
Here's my question: "If your products not selling, change the method..." we heard it time and time again from Hermes. With the decline of camp meetings all around the country, is it accurate that the camp meeting "method" is not "selling?" Do we need to switch styles? Are we stuck with this decaying program? If our generation truly understood Ury and Hermes, do you think we would keep the camp meeting around? (remember, i enjoy them as well, but I'm just wondering.)
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Mike Cline, at 8:53 AM
Dr. Bound:
I hope that I did not sound too harsh. I think I'm more worried than anything.
Dernell: Thanks for the encouragement. I do think there is something about our message that we lacked, that caused many in the 'lost generation" to leave.
Snipes: I asked Dr. Drury that same question when he wrote a piece on camp meetings and he never answered me. HMMM .... I don't know ... I think it's going to have to change, but I think the concept can still work if we devolope community.
(I know Dr. Drury does not read my site, so if anyone would like to ask him what he thinks we should do with camp meeting I'd be really happy!)
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Aaron, at 11:06 AM
Snipes, and everyone said, OUCH! Those are tough questions to answer. It applies to churches as well, most decent size churches quit holding "revivals" (just a small scale campmeeting) a long time ago, but the smaller more traditional churches keep them going for sake of tradition, I suppose.
Whenever we have a revival in our church these are my observations:
1) The unchurched are almost never present
2) The boomers and below are never represented
3) Only our seniors attend, and that either our to duty or to hear the free concert before the preaching.
4) The altars are usually barren (this I believe relates to your point in the post, Aaron)
Aaron, I wrote this amazing comment in response to this post about three days ago, but it was so glorious Satan must have rigged blogger so that it wouldn't post... what can I say? It probably would have started a massive 3rd Great Awakening! LOL!
Ury made this additional comment in connection to the others you quoted, something to the effect of, "we use our youth for self-atonement" as if we can somehow rest assured that we "okay" because they are seeking. I see this on our District level camp-meeting every year.
Great post! You need to write more, not just because you're a great thinker... it's a great discipline!
By
Anonymous, at 1:53 PM
I'm recalling the rest of my "lost comment".
I've personally determined in my own heart that I'll never become one of those senior adult or boomer-aged pastors who will never be seen praying at an altar. I want to be a seeker. I think the altar was primarly understood as a place for confession (salvation) or cleansing (sanctification) in previous generations. Perhaps a small contribution our generation can make will be to refashion the altar into a "holy of holies" were we can meet with God surrounded by the prayers of the saints. That's my reflection anyway, perhaps better theological reflection would refute that, I don't know.
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Anonymous, at 1:57 PM
(Quick sidenote, I want to give the right man daps for his own words...it was Melvin Maxwell and not Hermes who continued to preach on the concept of "selling" with the right method." Apologies...)
Ury comment about using the youth to "atone" really hit me hard. Thanks for sharing that Thinking in Ohio. I think it applies to me as a future youth pastor (hopefully some day) as well. I have to make sure I'm not living my spiritual life through their spiritual achievements and not my own seeking nature. Hmm...my brain is reeling.
A few other things that have "died off" in most mid-size churches:
(1) Evening services, such as Sunday Nights
(2) Bus ministries
(3) Altar calls all together
(4) Prayer meetings
Which of these do you think our generation still enjoys and would be willing to bring back? Which of these have lasted too long as is and would be good to continue dying? Personally, I'd like to see Prayer meetings and bus ministries still rocking. The other two, I go back and forth on.
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Mike Cline, at 4:21 PM
Evening Services? Keep them for the senior adults, they need and want them. But for the emergents and some boomers it needs to be replaced with weekly small groups.
Bus Ministries? There are a lot of kids out there that are going to church simply because their parents won't send them... crank out the vans!
Prayer Meetings? First thing to die in a church that is spiritually dying... I don't really believe a church will experience genuine renewal without prayer. It doesn't have to be in a designated service, but its gotta be happening.
Altar calls? I think there are pros and cons to this. It can never be an end to itself and I'm so weary of quick prayers and the two to three minutes most of us spend at the altar. I always feel pressure to move on, especially in churches. I like what some emergent churches are doing. Instead of an invitation to an altar they offer an invitation to respond at various "stations". A person can choose where and how they respond to a message in a variety of forms. It combines a lot of expressive art and physical icons in the response process.
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Anonymous, at 7:49 PM
good thoughts everyone.
Snipes:
Evening services- It's sad to me that these have been bailed on. I think if it is done properly these can be a great ministry. We are looking at revamping our Sunday Night service soon.
Bus- I'm for it, however, to really reach a family I think you have to try to get the whole family to come. Busses are ok for bringing kids, but I think there must be a way to get the parents in the "big service"
Prayer meetings- The wed. night prayer meeting is no more. And it's sad. but it's sad to me because the group that says they want it doesn't come, and the group that comes doesn't seem to be moved to pray.
Altar calls- this is the single most important thing in church to me. this is the place where we come to seek God. In the words of one of my fav. pastors "do not ask why you should go to the altar, but why you should you not." I am deeply saddened that we have let this die. I think it's all generations faults. The old don't go down. The middle aged got jaded, and the young don't understand it. If the church truly revives it will be around an altar of confession, prayer, and seeking.
By
Aaron, at 10:21 AM
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